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Author
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Topic: The Changing Anti-Site
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Ted Todd
Member
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posted 08-30-2006 06:01 PM
 
I am not sure if all of the planets have realigned or if it is a global warming thing but "stuff" is changing on Boy George's site.First, Dr. Drew comes right out and recommends a polygraph exam for John Karr.....WOW! Now Boy George has turned loose of Ed Gelb and has replaced Ed's picture with an APA policy and a commendation of the APA. My joy knows no bounds! I would like everyone to pause for a moment for a group hug and three versus of Kum Ba Yah. Ted IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 08-30-2006 07:18 PM
Hi TT. I wonder what is cooking with George and his band of hard-ons. Upon originally reading his bio ('03?), I was struck by his professional accomplishments. I too speak Arabic (although elementary) and if not for different decisions, would have likely became a 97b intel worker. I've tried to imagine myself in his shoes going through the daunting poly process (not knowing what I know) and being rejected from a better fed job. I'm not so naive to believe every word of George's bio, but I myself would have a serious beef with my examiner, his boss, and the polygraph profession as a whole if I recieved a DI upon taking extraordinary measures to confess/empty my soul. Per George's description of his test, (again, if it's true) he sounded like the polygraph-lethal combination of a "bleeder" and a "boyscout"----a person who battles the psych set process unknowingly by virtue of earnest intentions (via confessions) all the while having an historical lack of any normal deviancy (dweeb). I believe that I've ran across the types from time to time (as most all)and have been left with highly suspicious charts and a degree of doubt as to my psych-set efficacy on a given individual. George and his site are the enemy, but his tenacity impresses me to no end. I'm not of the mind that his legions and browsers "beat the box" with any ease, but I am absolutely convinced that he is personally responsible for tens of thousands of contaminated tests.[This message has been edited by stat (edited 08-30-2006).] [This message has been edited by stat (edited 08-30-2006).] [This message has been edited by stat (edited 08-30-2006).] IP: Logged |
polypro
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 08:34 AM
George is a mystery man. I mean, how does a person with his background (he's very proud of himself) lose a TS clearance without making some fairly damaging statements in the polygraph suite? I can't see the government dropping his clearance, based solely on a couple of SR exams. I'd guess that somebody's not telling the whole story. Anyone know? Please, put my mind at ease - tell me that George isn't telling the entire truth, and if he isn't, why want someone take him to task when he's on national TV shouting polygraph abuse?Okay, I feel better.........this place is great therapy. IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 09:16 AM
OK, I'm going to go WAY out on a limb here. George stated in his bio that his father worked in the Nevada(?) desert on sensitive projects (my term). Do you see where I'm going with this? At the risk of being ridiculed, there are many viewers on this site who have strong and secret opinions on what the government does/has done in "Area 51" and other southwest desert facilities. I feel embarrassed for even bringing it up-----regardless of whether a person believes in ETBE (extraterrestrial biological entities) or not, there is certainly alot of Federal enforcement surrounding the subject. For me personally (the limb I'm climbing is getting thinner by the second) I have little doubt that men like Kenneth Arnold and a handfull of other "witnesses to the phenomenon" are quite credible. I defy anyone to get a freedom of info filing returned on events which took place over a half century ago regarding flying objects without enough inkouts to fill a xerox cartridge-----I mean, what the !*%& else are we supposed to think. sheesh, I feel stupid for even bringing up the subject though. I do know that a great way to fail a TSC poly is to withhold info that daddy talked about one night when he had too many beers or what daddy said in his bed while suffering from Parkinson's (or whatever.)Regardless, I have a hard time believing that a simple "lier" would go to the collosal effort to bring down a policy based on a True Positive poly test. I guess only Mr. Trimarrico(sp?) knows for sure.[This message has been edited by stat (edited 09-01-2006).] IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 09:20 AM
sigh[This message has been edited by stat (edited 09-01-2006).] IP: Logged |
polypro
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 09:47 AM
stat,Interesting, but what would preclude someone from disclosing George's transgressions (of course if there were any disclosed)? Why want the government agencies defend themselves? (Not to mention their polygraph programs) Do you think we will ever know? IP: Logged |
Ted Todd
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 10:03 AM
"and when I returned, Mary Jo and the kaarr were gone". Yes, the boys in D.C. do have a history of not telling the entire truth.George not only failed Jack Trimarco's exam, but he also failed a second exam administered by Irvin Youngblood at LAPD(on the same issues). I don't know if Irvin posts here but he may be able to shine a light on George! Ted IP: Logged |
ebvan
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 10:06 AM
Never having met George, I am going out on a limb here, but there seems to be a wealth of anecdotal evidence that he doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut. Based on his constant proselytizing, I'm betting it was something he said in response to the examiners questions about his reactions that "red-flagged" him with the government. IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 10:41 AM
all good points gents. It is pretty clear that George is a man who has an adolescent sense of vendeta----Most of us have been screwed over at one time or another and we just begrudgingly move on. This guy has dedicated his life pursuing the demise of our craft with a venomous fever not seen since the birth of Moveon.org or even Ann Coultier. IP: Logged |
polypro
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 10:47 AM
sooo..........what you saying is - his polygraph results triggered an investigation, which eventually revealed transgressions? If that's the case, polygraph worked, but George nor anyone else will say. I've given this a great deal of thought over the past couple of years, and I can not believe that George's problems were the result of two SR polygraph calls. Does the term "paradox" fit this situation? Ah....I think so.IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 04:10 PM
Transgressions aside, if he could put half of his tenaciousness in fighting al quada he would be an asset.----- yah sara (what a pity)IP: Logged |
J L Ogilvie
Moderator
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posted 09-01-2006 05:00 PM
We all think of George as an annoyance and get frustrated with him at times. I think their may be a bigger issue concerning his web site.If you read all the topics on his site one thing bothers me more than any other. Alot of his readers and disciples are just barely left of Attila the Hun. Some of those people are down right scary. Government haters and anti everything that seems to mean anything to me. He has really attracted some people that someone should be watching. Jack ------------------
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Ted Todd
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 05:50 PM
Jack,I may be giving the Feds more credit than they deserve but I would hope they have a developing file on guys like "Beech Trees", "Triple X" and of
course, "EosJupiter". You can just picture these freeks sitting around in their underwear, in their trailers, eating Cheetos and posting on George's site ( and wondering why the keys on their keyboard always stick in the down position!) They probably post on several other anti-gov. sites as well!
I know of at least two federal examiners who post on George's site and I am sure they have a few of these guys in the cross hairs! Ted [This message has been edited by Ted Todd (edited 09-01-2006).] IP: Logged |
polypro
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 06:38 PM
Well, George and his followers are definitely way.....way out in left field. George says that "true americans question authority." And remember that this guy was at one point defending our country. Now, he's trying to teach polygraph countermeasures to those who would do harm to us or our children. All under the pretense that he's helping some poor soul avoid a false positive. NOT.......We are one up on ole Georgie, though. He's no longer advocating the butt cheek thing. Guest the pizo pad slammed some of those who followed his advise. Ha! [This message has been edited by polypro (edited 09-01-2006).] [This message has been edited by polypro (edited 09-06-2006).] IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 09:23 PM
With all due respect --and I mean that to you guys--- but I can bite a tip of my gum without being noticed (not even my temples move) and simultaneously make myself feel nausious through the mental reliving of the aweful noroviruses that my kids give my wife and I every year----and consistantly provoke a .70 magnitude on my instrument on any given cue (which is the average DI magnitude on relevants). There is no latency nor overly abrupt tracing. Can I beat a real Relevant Test?---perhaps not, but I could certainly contaminate any test with all the godd*#$ foolishness and probably shake the *interrogative confidence* of an examiner----all the while per George's potent advice----"SAY NOTHING NO MATTER WHAT THE BOZO SAYS TO YOU---HE IS NOT 100% CERTAIN THAT YOU'RE LYING."
I wish I could go to the UTAH countermeasure classes.I just hope that they aren't showing/viewing bad countermeasures and doing too much over-confidencing of good examiners. When a confession is made to administering countermeasures (rare by savy examinees) we examiners CAN fall prey to looking at those countermeasures and animate what is really undetectable if the act had gone unconfessed. Excuse the rant gentleman. IP: Logged |
polypro
Member
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posted 09-01-2006 10:27 PM
stat,I understand, and agree with you that anyone can skew test results. However, to read something on the internet and put what one has read into practice is a horse of a different color. Your an examiner, and you said that your not sure if you could defeat the test. That says alot. Now throw in a person who has a relevant issue to conceal, and that compounds the examinee's problem. Sure, any examiner who says that he/she has never been beaten or can't be beaten is wrong. I know that I've been beaten, but had I been armed with the knowledge that I currently have, I don't think I would have been beaten that particular time. We're getting better at identifying countermeasures, but, your right, being too confident can cause an examiner real problems. Being informed and vigilant are still our best weapons. IP: Logged |
ebvan
Member
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posted 09-02-2006 08:22 AM
To become very proficient at coutermeasures on needs a polygraph instrument for practice.BE CAREFUL where your old instruments go. IP: Logged |
polypro
Member
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posted 09-02-2006 02:04 PM
As I stated in an earlier post, if a person has an issue and attempts to defeat the tests by doing mental math, visualizations, thinking exciting thoughts, then I'm not completely convinced that the relevant issue will be overcome. It might be INC, or more than likely a no opinion because the countermeasures will be detected.What I'm getting at is this: for someone to read a book on how to employ countermeasures, the likelihood that that person will be successful is very....very slim. Even if the examinee trains with an instrument, once they're in that chair and anxiety sets in there's still a beter than average chance that a trained examiner will detect the countermeasures. Furthermore, the NAS study concluded that the innocent examinees, who use countermeasures to prevent a false positive, may doom their chances of passing the exam (false negative). Have a safe and happy holiday weekend. [This message has been edited by polypro (edited 09-06-2006).] IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 09-04-2006 08:56 AM
Thanks for the threads y'all. I wish we were having a potent countermeasure lecture/workshop at the Mid-West Regional polygraph conferance (Sept 19,20,21). At my current skill level with regard to differentiating subtle physical (oral) cm's from the COMPLETELY VARIANT "natural" arousels, I feel far less confident than polypro. Suspicious of certain arousal patterns? Yes. Confident? Not really, at least not at my current skill level. Every year or so I like to hit the road and go harrass and "camp" around examiners like Eric Holden so I can learn things from first hand witness---not lectures --but in the field. Clearly I need to offer some week-long janitorial services for a talent-driven and well-established (jedi)poly practice so I can kick my skill-set up a notch. I also make great coffee. Happy Holidays![This message has been edited by stat (edited 09-04-2006).] [This message has been edited by stat (edited 09-04-2006).] IP: Logged |
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